Ancient Greek 'to be taught in state schools'

[Agamemnon]

Ancient Greek 'to be taught in state schools'

Ancient Greek will be taught in state primary schools to boost children's
language skills, it emerged today.

By Graeme Paton, Education Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 30 Jul 2010

Some 160 pupils in three schools will be given lessons in the native tongue
of Archimedes and Herodotus from September.

The move follows the successful introduction of Latin to dozens of state
primaries in England.

The Iris Project, a charity campaigning for the teaching of the Classics,
which is leading the latest drive, said the subject had substantial knock-on
benefits across the curriculum.

Lorna Robinson, charity director, who will be teaching the one-hour lessons
every two weeks, told the Times Education Supplement: "People can be daunted
at the idea of learning a language that has a different alphabet as it may
feel like an additional challenge.

"Actually, though, we¹ve found that while it does add an extra dimension to
the learning it¹s one that people take to quite quickly and really enjoy
once they get going.

"Ancient Greek is just a wonderful language, full of beautiful words and
fascinating concepts."

Pupils will be taught the alphabet, basic grammar and vocabulary, as well as
learning about ancient Greek culture, such as the development of the Olympic
Games and the comedies of Aristophanes.

Latin is currently more widely taught than ancient Greek, although it is
still mainly confined to private schools.

Advocates include Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, who recently gave a
Latin lesson to teenagers at a London secondary.

Under new plans, three Oxford primary schools will be given Greek lessons
from September. A further 10 will get one-off taster sessions.

Sue Widgery, head of East Oxford primary in Cowley, where children speak 26
different languages, said: We were sufficiently enthused by Latin to give it
a go with ancient Greek. It heightens children's sense of language, they can
see the connections between languages and it is fun."

[v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com]

That's not "Ancient" Greek. It is CLASSICAL Greek.

Greeks say "Archaic" which leads to confusion.

This distinction is not trivial because this allows a lot of
non-Greeks to make some very ridiculous assertions about meanings and
pronounciations. Sometimes those assertions are deliberately used to
support non-Greek religious and political ideas against those of Greeks.


- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm http://www.facebook.com/vasjpan2
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

[ADR]

Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
That's not "Ancient" Greek. It is CLASSICAL Greek.
Greeks say "Archaic" which leads to confusion.
This distinction is not trivial because this allows a lot of
non-Greeks to make some very ridiculous assertions about meanings and
pronounciations.  Sometimes those assertions are deliberately used to
support non-Greek religious and political ideas against those of Greeks.

I am not sure what you are talking about. "Archaios" in Greek means
ancient. In the old curriculum, ancient Greeks text included Homer's
Iliad and Odyssey, Tyrtaios' poetry, Herodotus, Thucydides, Plato,
Lucian, Xenophon, Demosthenes and various others. Thus, the texts
spanned a period from the mid-7th century BCE to th 4th century BCE.
Only a small number of these texts came from the classical period.
Actually, at school, we had to "sing" the Odyssey as well.

I have absolutely no clue as to what you mean about "meanings and
pronunciations". We have an excellent idea as to what ancient Greek
sounded like. Not much is open to debate on this.

[Agamemnon]

Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
That's not "Ancient" Greek. It is CLASSICAL Greek.
Greeks say "Archaic" which leads to confusion.
This distinction is not trivial because this allows a lot of
non-Greeks to make some very ridiculous assertions about meanings and
pronounciations. Sometimes those assertions are deliberately used to
support non-Greek religious and political ideas against those of Greeks.

<<<I am not sure what you are talking about. "Archaios" in Greek means
ancient. In the old curriculum, ancient Greeks text included Homer's
Iliad and Odyssey, Tyrtaios' poetry, Herodotus, Thucydides, Plato,
Lucian, Xenophon, Demosthenes and various others. Thus, the texts
spanned a period from the mid-7th century BCE to th 4th century BCE.
Only a small number of these texts came from the classical period.
Actually, at school, we had to "sing" the Odyssey as well.>>>

Homer wrote in 900 BC. 10th Century.

<<<I have absolutely no clue as to what you mean about "meanings and
pronunciations". We have an excellent idea as to what ancient Greek
sounded like. Not much is open to debate on this.>>>

He means the Erasmian based Barbaric pronunciation system and its
derivatives which bare no resemblance to the way ancient Greek was actually
pronounced. Using elementary statistics and the fact that Linear B c.1600 BC
is Greek and assuming it was pronounced completely differently from modern
Greek and recognising the indisputable fact that Hellenistic Koine was
pronounced exactly the same way as modern Greek you can easily deduce that
by classical times the predominant way ancient Greek was pronounced was the
same way as modern Greek is today. In fact the turning point if there ever
was one is exactly the time of Homer, 900 BC.

[ADR]

Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
That's not "Ancient" Greek. It is CLASSICAL Greek.
Greeks say "Archaic" which leads to confusion.
This distinction is not trivial because this allows a lot of
non-Greeks to make some very ridiculous assertions about meanings and
pronounciations. Sometimes those assertions are deliberately used to
support non-Greek religious and political ideas against those of Greeks.

<<<I am  not sure what you are talking about.  "Archaios" in Greek means
ancient.  In the old curriculum, ancient Greeks text included Homer's
Iliad and Odyssey, Tyrtaios' poetry, Herodotus, Thucydides, Plato,
Lucian, Xenophon, Demosthenes and various others.  Thus, the texts
spanned a period from the mid-7th century BCE to th 4th century BCE.
Only a small number of these texts came from the classical period.
Actually, at school, we had to "sing" the Odyssey as well.>>>
Homer wrote in 900 BC. 10th Century.
<<<I have absolutely no clue as to what you mean about "meanings and
pronunciations".  We have an excellent idea as to what ancient Greek
sounded like.  Not much is open to debate on this.>>>
He means the  Erasmian based Barbaric pronunciation system and its
derivatives which bare no resemblance to the way ancient Greek was actually
pronounced. Using elementary statistics and the fact that Linear B c.1600 BC
is Greek and assuming it was pronounced completely differently from modern
Greek and recognising the indisputable fact that Hellenistic Koine was
pronounced exactly the same way as modern Greek you can easily deduce that
by classical times the predominant way ancient Greek was pronounced was the
same way as modern Greek is today. In fact the turning point if there ever
was one is exactly the time of Homer, 900 BC.

Aggie, I really do not have much time for your hallucinations. Just
open an encyclopedia to find out how ancient Greek was pronounced. If
you disagree, write a letter to the publishers. Nobody really pays
any attention to your dreams.

Homer did not write anything in the 10th centrury BCE. There was no
writing in the 10th century BCE. Ziltch. If you want to find out
when the works of Homer were written and you do not want to read any
modern historians, read at least ancient historians. Read some the
analysis of the works by Aristarchus of Samothrace. After you read
something, come and ask a few questions. Now, run away.

[Agamemnon]

Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
That's not "Ancient" Greek. It is CLASSICAL Greek.
Greeks say "Archaic" which leads to confusion.
This distinction is not trivial because this allows a lot of
non-Greeks to make some very ridiculous assertions about meanings and
pronounciations. Sometimes those assertions are deliberately used to
support non-Greek religious and political ideas against those of Greeks.

<<<I am not sure what you are talking about. "Archaios" in Greek means
ancient. In the old curriculum, ancient Greeks text included Homer's
Iliad and Odyssey, Tyrtaios' poetry, Herodotus, Thucydides, Plato,
Lucian, Xenophon, Demosthenes and various others. Thus, the texts
spanned a period from the mid-7th century BCE to th 4th century BCE.
Only a small number of these texts came from the classical period.
Actually, at school, we had to "sing" the Odyssey as well.>>>
Homer wrote in 900 BC. 10th Century.
<<<I have absolutely no clue as to what you mean about "meanings and
pronunciations". We have an excellent idea as to what ancient Greek
sounded like. Not much is open to debate on this.>>>
He means the Erasmian based Barbaric pronunciation system and its
derivatives which bare no resemblance to the way ancient Greek was actually
pronounced. Using elementary statistics and the fact that Linear B c.1600 BC
is Greek and assuming it was pronounced completely differently from modern
Greek and recognising the indisputable fact that Hellenistic Koine was
pronounced exactly the same way as modern Greek you can easily deduce that
by classical times the predominant way ancient Greek was pronounced was the
same way as modern Greek is today. In fact the turning point if there ever
was one is exactly the time of Homer, 900 BC.

<<<Aggie, I really do not have much time for your hallucinations. Just>>>

From your ignorant rantings it is clear that you are lacking in any
knowledge of actual genuine history.

<<<open an encyclopedia to find out how ancient Greek was pronounced. If>>>

I don't need an encyclopaedia. Everything I have said is fully supported by
genuine history books, not peoples unhistorical opinions of things they have
not even personally read in an encyclopaedia.

<<<you disagree, write a letter to the publishers. Nobody really pays
any attention to your dreams.>>>

<<<Homer did not write anything in the 10th centrury BCE. There was no>>>

Yes he did. THAT IS THE DATE GIVEN BY ALL ANCIENT HISTORICAL PRIMARY SOURCES
including the Parian Marble, Eusebius' Chronicon and Jerome's Chronicon.

<<<writing in the 10th century BCE. Ziltch. If you want to find out
when the works of Homer were written and you do not want to read any
modern historians, read at least ancient historians. Read some the>>>

Clearly you have not read any yourself.

<<<analysis of the works by Aristarchus of Samothrace. After you read
something, come and ask a few questions. Now, run away.>>>

Ah yes, another author you have not actually read. Aristarchus says that
Homer lived at the time of the Ionian migration, which began 140 years after
that the capture of Troy, ie. 1043 BC. As for the other accounts, according
to Philochorus, it was after the Ionian migration (1003 BC), in the
archonship of Archippus at Athens, 180 years after the Trojan war;
Apollodorus says it was 100 years after the Ionian migration (943 BC), which
would be 240 years after the Trojan war and some say that he lived 90 years
before the Olympiads or 866 BC at the time of Lycurgus. So clearly they are
talking about the span of the lifetime of Homer which according to all
credible accounts centres around 950 BC and the only question which arises
is weather that is the date of his death or the date of his birth. Well,
since the majority of sources place him writing in 900 BC, 950 BC must be
the time of his birth and his death was in 866 BC.

Aristarchus statement that Homer lived at the time of the Ionian migration,
spans the full duration of the Ionian migration which was in stages and
lasted about 100 years, which he is using as a reference point, and others
quoting him have added the approximate date, and the same is the case with
Philochorus who is obviously using the period of the Ionian migration as his
reference point which centres on the reign of Archippus which is when Hector
took power in Chios and joined the Ionian Confederation, hence this
association as a reference point to the time of Homer who is said to have
lived on Chios, which can't have occurred until after the Ionians were
established there.

So it is blatantly clear to anyone but a fool that you don't have the
remotest clue of history or anything you are talking about. You are
completely out of your depth and haven't read a single historical text
dealing with the period in question and don't have any idea of who the
players were, where they came from, what they did or when they lived.

[ADR]

Post by Agamemnon
So it is blatantly clear to anyone but a fool that you don't have the
remotest clue of history or anything you are talking about. You are
completely out of your depth and haven't read a single historical text
dealing with the period in question and don't have any idea of who the
players were, where they came from, what they did or when they lived.

Well, good for you Aggie....but as I said, I have really no time for
your hallucinations. If you remember, we discussed all these ad
nauseum and then you cut bait and left the thread. Not very
surprising.

Listen, if you want to believe in the wild stories of yours, this is
your choice. Stop, however, kidding yourself that you have read the
"genuine" historians and everybody else on this globe simply holds
"unhistorical opinions". This is just about the definition of
paranoia.

[Agamemnon]

Post by Agamemnon
So it is blatantly clear to anyone but a fool that you don't have the
remotest clue of history or anything you are talking about. You are
completely out of your depth and haven't read a single historical text
dealing with the period in question and don't have any idea of who the
players were, where they came from, what they did or when they lived.

<<<Well, good for you Aggie....but as I said, I have really no time for
your hallucinations. If you remember, we discussed all these ad
nauseum and then you cut bait and left the thread. Not very
surprising.>>>

You lost the argument then just like you lost it right now. You don't have a
clue of what you are talking about. When presented with the actual genuine
historical facts, written by actual genuine historians, you cannot provide a
reply, which is why you have cut out all the historical facts I presented
which totally demolish your argument which is based on nothing more than
pure ignorance of what historians have actually written and wishful thinking
making it up as you go along.

[ADR]

Post by Agamemnon

Post by Agamemnon
So it is blatantly clear to anyone but a fool that you don't have the
remotest clue of history or anything you are talking about. You are
completely out of your depth and haven't read a single historical text
dealing with the period in question and don't have any idea of who the
players were, where they came from, what they did or when they lived.

<<<Well, good for you Aggie....but as I said, I have really no time for
your hallucinations.  If you remember, we discussed all these ad
nauseum and then you cut bait and left the thread.  Not very
surprising.>>>
You lost the argument then just like you lost it right now. You don't have a
clue of what you are talking about. When presented with the actual genuine
historical facts, written by actual genuine historians, you cannot provide a
reply, which is why you have cut out all the historical facts I presented
which totally demolish your argument which is based on nothing more than
pure ignorance of what historians have actually written and wishful thinking
making it up as you go along.

Good night, Aggie, happy dreams

[v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com]

Take a look at Vox Graeca by W Sydney Allen, see the part about Hindi
pronounciations of Ypsilon.



- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm http://www.facebook.com/vasjpan2
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

[Cormac]

Post by Agamemnon
Ancient Greek 'to be taught in state schools'
Ancient Greek will be taught in state primary schools to boost children's
language skills, it emerged today.
By Graeme Paton, Education Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 30 Jul 2010
Some 160 pupils in three schools will be given lessons in the native tongue
of Archimedes and Herodotus from September.
The move follows the successful introduction of Latin to dozens of state
primaries in England.
The Iris Project, a charity campaigning for the teaching of the Classics,
which is leading the latest drive, said the subject had substantial knock-on
benefits across the curriculum.
Lorna Robinson, charity director, who will be teaching the one-hour lessons
every two weeks, told the Times Education Supplement: "People can be daunted
at the idea of learning a language that has a different alphabet as it may
feel like an additional challenge.
"Actually, though, we¹ve found that while it does add an extra dimension to
the learning it¹s one that people take to quite quickly and really enjoy
once they get going.

I recall a recent radio discussion about the Tridentine Mass. The
presenter made the comment that he only remembered two words of Latin
from the old Mass: Kyrie Eleison.

They are of course transliterations from Greek meaning "Lord have
mercy".

Cormac.

[ADR]

Post by Cormac

Post by Agamemnon
Ancient Greek 'to be taught in state schools'
Ancient Greek will be taught in state primary schools to boost children's
language skills, it emerged today.
By Graeme Paton, Education Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 30 Jul 2010
Some 160 pupils in three schools will be given lessons in the native tongue
of Archimedes and Herodotus from September.
The move follows the successful introduction of Latin to dozens of state
primaries in England.
The Iris Project, a charity campaigning for the teaching of the Classics,
which is leading the latest drive, said the subject had substantial knock-on
benefits across the curriculum.
Lorna Robinson, charity director, who will be teaching the one-hour lessons
every two weeks, told the Times Education Supplement: "People can be daunted
at the idea of learning a language that has a different alphabet as it may
feel like an additional challenge.
"Actually, though, we¹ve found that while it does add an extra dimension to
the learning it¹s one that people take to quite quickly and really enjoy
once they get going.

I recall a recent radio discussion about the Tridentine Mass. The
presenter made the comment that he only remembered two words of Latin
from  the old Mass: Kyrie Eleison.
They are of course transliterations from Greek meaning "Lord have
mercy".
Cormac.

No, they were not transliterations. Kyrie Eleison are both Greek
words which, as you say mean "Lord have mercy". For some reason they
were incorporated into the Latin mass, probably for liturgical reasons

[Cormac]

Post by Cormac

Post by Agamemnon
Ancient Greek 'to be taught in state schools'
Ancient Greek will be taught in state primary schools to boost children's
language skills, it emerged today.
By Graeme Paton, Education Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 30 Jul 2010
Some 160 pupils in three schools will be given lessons in the native tongue
of Archimedes and Herodotus from September.
The move follows the successful introduction of Latin to dozens of state
primaries in England.
The Iris Project, a charity campaigning for the teaching of the Classics,
which is leading the latest drive, said the subject had substantial knock-on
benefits across the curriculum.
Lorna Robinson, charity director, who will be teaching the one-hour lessons
every two weeks, told the Times Education Supplement: "People can be daunted
at the idea of learning a language that has a different alphabet as it may
feel like an additional challenge.
"Actually, though, we¹ve found that while it does add an extra dimension to
the learning it¹s one that people take to quite quickly and really enjoy
once they get going.

I recall a recent radio discussion about the Tridentine Mass. The
presenter made the comment that he only remembered two words of Latin
from  the old Mass: Kyrie Eleison.
They are of course transliterations from Greek meaning "Lord have
mercy".
Cormac.

No, they were not transliterations.  Kyrie Eleison are both Greek
words which, as you say mean "Lord have mercy".  For some reason they
were incorporated into the Latin mass, probably for liturgical reasons

Transliterated from the Greek alphabet to the Latin.

Cormac.